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  • Can only speak in my immediate neighborhood but evidently not all that showed cupping were damaged. Sounds like extent of yield reduction varied. Seems like making a judgement on drive by visual appearance only is a little shot sided.

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    • In this area quite a bit of damage due to volatilization, drift, and tank contamination visible. Not many claims paid nearby in 2017 due to yield loss.

      A weed guy from Purdue suggests that it takes roughly 1/10,000 of the legal application rate for dicamba resistant soybeans to cause dicamba cupping symptoms on susceptible soybeans.
      It takes roughly 1/100th of the full rate to cause a yield loss on susceptible soybeans.

      Dicamba risks have to be respected yet it seems reckless that many of the same weed guys who told us to ignore the "yellow flash" that often accompanied Roundup application, or the leaf burn plus cupping that often accompanies application of Flexstar type materials (PPOs post emergence)- using words like crop response or symptoms- suddenly refer to all leaf cupping caused by limited movement of dicamba DAMAGE OR INJURY. The vocabulary of many has suddenly changed.

      The numbers above suggest that of the acres that show symptoms a very small proportion would show yield loss when compared.
      I question whether volatilization could ever cause 1/100th or 1% of the dicamba to move.

      The tough part on the crop injury risks is weather both when the crop is sprayed and in the early hours and maybe a few days after spraying due to volatility risks. What happens if we have many days of wind? Do farm operators who were hoping to spray low volatility dicamba products suddenly change plans and spray something else?

      I have checked what my neighbors plan to plant on fields of soybeans that are adjacent to my planned 2018 soy fields. Of the 9 adjacent fields that I have checked on so far- 2 are Liberty and 8 are dicamba resistant soybeans.

      Hopefully everybody has a good plan to control tall waterhemp and have some luck in getting the weather and soils fit when they need to spray. So far- My risks from economic costs due to weed control methods used haven't been linked to herbicide drift or volatilization. They have primarily been whether my neighbors that have surface water that sometimes runs through my farm are keeping their tall water hemp under control. The seeds clearly move with water and all of my worst spots beyond field boundaries are in wet pockets that had thinned crop stands (limited crop canopy and shading) in the past and/ or running water through these fields at some time. I too have shared some of the seed produced on my farm with neighbors through the movement of water off of my farm.
      Last edited by jabber1; 01-18-2018, 02:03 AM.
      “Democracy is the worst form of government, -------------------------------except for all the others.”

      ― Winston S. Churchill

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      • The 1/100th and 1/1000th stats are what they told us today. Thing I didn't like hearing this gal tell us was it takes 10 years from the time a new product is developed until it passes all the testing and whatever to come onto the market. She says as of today there isn't anything even in the works.

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        • For soybeans- resistance to high rates of 2-4-D stacked with Liberty Resistance is in the research pipeline. I would not dare speculate when all regulatory approvals will be in place plus import approvals from all major markets.
          “Democracy is the worst form of government, -------------------------------except for all the others.”

          ― Winston S. Churchill

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          • Originally posted by 4450 View Post
            The 1/100th and 1/1000th stats are what they told us today. Thing I didn't like hearing this gal tell us was it takes 10 years from the time a new product is developed until it passes all the testing and whatever to come onto the market. She says as of today there isn't anything even in the works.
            1/1,000th or 1/10,000th?
            “Democracy is the worst form of government, -------------------------------except for all the others.”

            ― Winston S. Churchill

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            • Maybe it was 1/10,000. Now I can't say. But I remember thinking of what my chem dealer suspected last summer after they cupped a bunch of liberty beans. Two of their machines had direct injection and had no problems when they switched to liberty. The third nursed from a different truck and while they used the same clean out procedure, what they sprayed with that machine cupped. He wondered if the fill hose from the truck to the sprayer was the problem. Even though it had a lot of water ran through it, it was the only part that touched dicamda that hadn't had cleaner. I thought at the time he was stretching it but looks like he had figured it out. They told us yesterday to wash off the outside of the sprayer good too, not just the inside.

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              • correct Bill the training we before the ban stated Dicamba would permeate rubber hoses to the point that is all they could be used for the chemical just worked like a time release time bomb in the older hoses in other words you just about need a decanted sprayer unit-----------------------------------dave

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                • auuuugh, with the re-designing of our crop plants, they have become p u s s y fied, unlike the old timex, can't take a beating!

                  Okay, it really isn't funny, however, EARLY on with our musk thistle spraying, had one trouble spot aerial sprayed, early morning application, beautiful afternoon, early fog in the evening...should have soaked it in, right....hahaha...3 days later, goose necked with hundreds of blossoms, a f**cking train wreck!

                  IF the dicamba is soaking into the hoses and gloves, paraquat is to be used with specific gloves, NOT the usual rubber most of us use in routine chemical handling, so it is looking
                  like some things got missed in developing a tool that isn't going to fix what "our" intentions were.

                  I too, keep hearing how long it takes to develop new technology, nothing coming down the line, and then think about the promises of when a milo resistant to a chemical for
                  use in fighting "Johnson grass" and shatter cane, the promised date was several years ago, last year some of it was planted in specific fields the last two years, looks like
                  the chemical and seed companies have research in their hip pockets...

                  random thoughts...have at it...

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                  • Can't argue about who might have who in their back pocket. Seems like no area is immune to that anymore. However I've been told that since milo is such a small percentage of crops grown, no one is interested in spending any money to improve anything there. And from reading the milo plot winners from this past year, looks true. Most of those numbers I recognize as the same old numbers from years past.

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                    • Where to start = Where to start : )) Lets go with Jabber - Jabber wonder about wind - for many days -What would operators do ? Sit - or Change program's ? I will speak in my area - From past experience - most will spray - wind or no wind -- unless - the ISCO comes down hard on them ! It really don't matter much any more what your neighbor has next to yeah - It's all about them - what's best for them and screw everything else - It's terrible - but so true - the bigger the operator the worse they are - as they have to many acres to cover with there equipment with they have to sit .

                      Dicamba in hose's ??? That's old news - Wonder why it's just being talked about now ??? Little story here : Back 12 - 15 years ago - I Lease out to a co-op - As far as my sprayer - it has all the stainless steel I could get on it = no hoses - Main reason is after a few years - the rubber will flake off inside the hoses and plug up nozzles - We sprayed a lot of Status down there - If I had to switch to do - say round up beans - I would clean out the sprayer with water - then after that was out - I would then pump in ? 200 - 300 gallon of water and add 2 to 3 gallon of roundup - then charge up the booms and then let it sit for no less than 24 hours - Side not here - the story I got from a guy In the know = higher up in a chemical company - round up as a weed killer was found by accident - round up was to be a industrial cleaner - they threw some out and after a few days - the grass was dead - remember - industrial cleaner ! The round up will pull out any dicamba in the rubber hose's ! After the 24 hour wait - then pump it off into a tank or our old pull type to spray fence rows or I would save it till fall and use it on a fall burn down program . Trust me - this will clean out your sprayers ! .

                      NO new chemicals - It takes 10 years to develop - it was that way many moons ago - It cost company's Millions and millions to make a product that may not work as advertised - Now they now what they need to kill = weeds - so they use a gene out of a plant that it knows that will kill that weed - then transfer it over to the new seed - I would bet that is a lot cheaper for the company's to come up with versus making a new chemistry .

                      Will training help ?? This is only me thinking out loud here - Training is always a good thing !!!! BUT - to use this new stuff - you almost have to have a degree in metrology to understand the conditions that could get you in trouble - which to me - there are many .

                      As far as percentage of beans - From the guys I have talked to - Most will stay the course - That is if they are planting Liberty - that's what they will plant - Only a few that will increase the new stuff and there dealers - BTW _ I did switch to Liberty this year - 100 percent . Timing ! Timing is the critical in spraying Liberty !

                      Funny thing - to me anyway --- Every time they come out with a new bean -- they calm a 5 to 7 % increase in yield - Even know with the new dicamba beans -- same deal - now I have been farming for 45 years now - Back in the old days - what 30 - 35 bpa was the norm - then came the Williams 82's and it has got better - But If I was to figure out how many new beans that as come out in my farming career - with all the 5 to 7 bpa increase's - chit fire - I should be yielding 145 bpa beans ! lmao - Must be this chitty Indiana dirt - : ))

                      In final - Will the U.S. farmers make the new dicamba sprays work ??? My money is NO .

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                      • well shooooooot where to start lets try this we here in Arkansas had 1600 infractions filed with the sate plant board on dicamba that's a record This is where they phial go out to the farm and investigate the infraction one investigator told me it was going to be a year to work the case load through the system and still have to levee fines to the guilty ones by the way all the fine money when collected goes to the school located in the county where the infraction was soooooooooooooooo-------------that means the farmer that was harmed must file his own law sute against who ever he can prove who did the spraying this is why we are under a BANNNNNNNNN the Goner sees all this tying up the courts and legal system here also if you had neighbors who will spray in 20 25 MPH wind we do not need DICAMBA we are running short on farmers now with it we may loose a few more here from the ones on the other sid of the fence-----------------------dave

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                        • so just to keep things moving, I'm sure I heard someone in Arkansas say that they needed dicamba just a couple years ago....anyone else remember it? lol, and NO, it isn't
                          really a laughing matter, but there is some of the "claims" are questionable, and some are truly legitimate.

                          However, NOT every size fits all, just like products, so if it can be used in some states, districts, areas, and NOT in others, but don't take away something from everyone that can
                          be used by some...

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                          • The sky may be falling in Arkansas but here we have used "banvel" side by side with cotton for years and haven't had any troubles the we can't take care of among ourselves.

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                            • Rumor in my neighborhood was a few guys were using the old formulation. Don't know that for a fact but if that's true it is shooting us all in the foot.

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                              • different strokes for different folks UC you have a lot dryer climate their I still attribute a lot of the movement here to the humidity we have my DAD TOLD ME BACK IN OUR cotton days that yoy could take a five gallon can of 245t-----about the same formulation as Dicamba------ and set in the middle of a 40 acre field of cotton and just take the top off the can and let it sit for a week or so and you would not be picking any cotton in that field that year it would not produce----------------------------------------dave

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